Friday, November 21, 2008

Bye Bye (our piece of the) American Pie - Part 1

So - I was Googling ‘ways to kill yourself and have your kids still get the life insurance’ but kept running across little tidbits about the economy.

Apparently suicide and the ‘bail-out’ have a lot in common.

Or maybe it was potential life insurance fraud that knocked heads somewhere in the Internet tubes with the ‘bail-out’. After all corruption is corruption.

I don’t know how I feel about the car makers. Wouldn’t it be nice if we actually started making things again. Tangible things that you can see and touch. The asshats that run the big three are due back in Washington on December 8 (I miss you John Lennon) and supposedly they’re bringing with them plans that show they’re going to stop being years behind the rest of the world and that they might actually be interested in building cars that don’t kill the planet – or the people who drive them.

A money site had this advice for them …

Note to Big Three automaker executives: When you are coming to congress to ask for billions in taxpayer bailout money it would be wise not to fly in on your private jets. This is just the latest example of corporate head honchos lavishly spending money and then begging for a handout.

The very first car I bought was a Toyota. The second was a Honda. I remember my American Legion, Korean War Veteran Uncle Phil being so mad at me. Buy American and all that. Well the thing was – those cars were cheaper and better made than any American car I looked at. And that was the beginning of the end for the Big 3.

During my 3 AM Google-Fest I also found a lot of opinions about why the price of gas is down. Many of them say because we stopped driving. But many say No No – the consumer doesn’t have any power. I don’t know.

I do know that we can make a difference at a local level. Here’s an example …

There are a few small family owned stores left in my town and each of them is struggling. One of the stores is owned by a family whose daughter is fighting a rare blood disease. They are in mind numbing debt thanks to the bullshit of our healthcare system. We are always having car washes and pot luck dinners to help them. Dad works all day in his store and then works at Home Depot at night. Mom works from home since their sick child can’t get any home nursing benefits.

BUT – many – most actually – of the people who attend all these well meaning events then go and shop at WalMart. WalMart !!! The store that would rather make your retired Grandfather work til he dies in aisle 4 than give any of their employees decent benefits.


I have tons of research and tidbits on the bail-out and the economy and the new generation of thugs.

I’ve been trying to get some freelance writing gigs by being well versed on all subjects.

Once there was a time that people would cross the street to avoid the crazy looking homeless guy. All that time we should have been watching the guy in the Armani carrying the baby calf leather briefcase. Cause the crazy homeless guy – well – he’s one of us.


Knight said...

Wait, why were you googling ways to kill yourself and have your kids still get the life insurance?

Dianne said...

I'm just trying to be dark yet funny. Don't worry sweet girl, suicide is not my style. Homicide? Yes.
I am overwhelmed with work yet I am not making any money. My income goes down and all my expenses go up and I'm tired of it and I'm pissed off and I'm sick to death of corporate asshats.

Deborah Godin said...

One of my favorite soap-box subjects! If I may offer my wild-eyed-conspiracy-nut-but-on-the-other-hand-she-might-just-have-something theory on this mess - I think every bit of it was manipulated all along. Gas prices went up like they did because the movers and shakers all knew and/or were in collusion with the fat cat skimmers and scammers. They knew this collapse was coming because they created it, so they just wanted to rip off the lowly consumers as much as they knew they could before it all hit the fan. Now, what's left of the middle class is sinking fast. Add to this decades of gradual intentional dumbing down of the schools (this part isn't my theory, but I subscribe to it, too) and you have the perfect recipe for returning to something resembling the Old World feudal system. They won't be satisfied until there's only the rich educated elite at the top holding the indentured serfs as economic hostages, complete with barely functioning illiteracy, easily lead. I think the new President-elect does honestly want to challenge this, and turn it around. I think he can, but I hope he has a lot of good people watching his back figuratively and literally.

bobbie said...

Ooooo - you said a dirty word! (WalMart)

I keep gritting my teeth and clenching my fists, hoping as hard as I can that the idiots in Congress will not cave in and bail out the auto industry. But I don't really believe they won't cave. they always do, don't they?

Dianne said...

deborah - I tend to think you absolutely have something!! and I think I love you ;)
I hope that all of us who worked so hard to get Obama elected keep working - his becoming President was the start of the race, not the finish line.

bobbie - they wanted to open one here - I did a huge presentation about traffic impact and got the council to listen. Of course I really wanted to talk about what crap they are and all the social and ethical and legal issues surrounding them but freakin' traffic is what gets people going!! As Deborah said - the dumbing down of America ...

Kerry said...

I totally had to justify myself to my father when I got a Toyota. Turns out it was actually built in the USA, whereas my Ford was built in Mexico. Many "American" cars are.

Mrs. C said...

Usually the guy in the Armani doesn't kill people in Grand Central Station with a knife. :] Just saying. But I hear what you're saying... I really do.

I'm not sure how much the government can really do. I mean, it's OUR fault collectively that we'd rather spend $20 on the same pair of shoes that the family business needs to sell for $45 to make a profit. The same pair of shoes... is it worth $25 to be greeted at the door as Mrs. Whatever, and asked how each kid is doing, and know that your purchase helps their family afford things you can't? So there are two sides to it. Though I *had* bought American products in the past from local companies, etc. etc. but I discovered through a very bad experience that JUST because it's local and American doesn't mean they stand behind their word. Nope. I might as well buy the same crappy thing from China twice and know I'm getting messed-up.

You don't think I'm cynical, do ya!?? I think we're closer on some issues than it appears on the surface.

Anyway, check this story out about the car bigwigs showing up with their little tin cups in hand, after exiting private jets! LOL!

Hugs to ya!

Dianne said...

kerry - back when I got my Toyota they were still made offshore and most American cars were made here. I believe that is now referred to as the Dark Ages ;)

mrs c - it is a complicated situation - the $25 shoe v. the $45 shoe. I get it. But I think it happened because the big guys can swallow the little guys and we went along with it even though we were signing on to our won demise. I just read that GM's fleet of luxury jets is worth at least 36 million.

Sparkling Red said...

I totally get what you're saying about peoples' wish to get a bargain overpowering the need to vote with our dollars. For example, my little sister is a vegan, because killing animals for our needs is oh so wrong. But she'll still buy cheap, made-in-the-third-world clothing/shoes etc. even though the manufacturers are exploiting people and the environment to reduce the price. Apparently that's not as bad as eating an organic egg laid by free-run chickens.
P.S. I'm guilty too, but at least aware of my guilt!

Kanani said...

Thousands of small business go under or are operating in the red every day. But they don't ask for a bail out. The smart ones get out when they project the expenses vs. incoming revenues and are still in the black. The more unfortunate ones keep going despite all the red flags.

In the case of the Big 3, they're going to have to reorganize. The union contracts cannot continue under the present terms if at all.
I say, let them go. Every business has its time. Now it's theirs. I have faith they can reorganize.

Raven said...

I love you when you're snarky. Great post as always. I don't know what I think about bailing out the auto industry. I guess I think we should, but with lots of rules and restrictions and penalties if they don't obey the rules. I think this is a moment when that industry can be turned around and I'm not sure letting it and all the jobs that go with it die is the right answer. Also, anything that Republicans are so opposed to can't be all bad.

I agree with Deborah G about gas prices. I think there is much manipulation. People had stopped buying. They had to bring us back into the addiction.

I have mixed feelings about Walmart. Everyone I know hates them, but in areas like the one where I live - where the mom and pop stores can't really supply all the needs because there's no economy to support them, Walmart comes in handy.

Hope your work situation gets better.

Daryl said...



Bond said...

OH SURE...a Friday and you make me have to THINK!?!?! Sheesh Dianne, you know better than that.

Anyway...gas prices...well, honestly, I am not sure if I follow Deborah's conspiracy theory, or just that we hit a bad spell and then the hurricanes and it all caught is part of the financial troubles and hearkens back to the not so distant future when the dotcom bubble burst.

The bubble not only burst this time it disintegrated.

WalMart...well having just returned from there at lunch I can say i do use them when necessary. To buy a cassette for my video recorder is half the cost there then at a local store. I feel pity for those people...heck my grandfather ran a grocery store in the Bronx most of his life.

The homeless guy is not necessarily the one pulling a knife in GCT, by the way. It is more often the young buck who thinks he is invincible.

tt said...

this is awkward...
I adore and LOVE Walmart. Always have and I suppose I always will. I really don't understand why there are walmart haters out there. They provide a service that's obviously needed...sure Mom and Pop stores went out of business. Nothing ever stays the same. But what about the little mom and pop hardware stores when Lowes and Home Depot came in?? Or the big chain grocery stores putting the little grocery store on the corner out of business?? Walmarts health insurance??? Not as bad as other business's I've heard about. It's better than what some of my kids have at their jobs. Is it perfect. Absolutely not. they provide a service that benefits the masses. You bet cha...:)( had to say that)
Also, I'm a wee bit partial..
Lovee works for the Distribution Center that's close to us. We don't have their health insurance b/c we have his retired military insurance....which is a whole different story....:)....not cheap either ;(.....'s a whole lot better than nothin'!
The WM company is paying their employees early this month...a day early...the day before Thanksgiving so they'll be sure and have $$ ...and also the day before Christmas for the same reason.
Could the WM do a better job with their employees...sure. Most companies could do better for their employees but for whatever reason they choose not to. my soap box now. Gotta go do my grocery, you guessed local Walmart. :)
( love you!!)

Anndi said...

It WOULD be nice if we started making things again... instead of having things that are made in China (and could poison you) or things made in India an Bangladesh (by hands the size of that sick little girl's in your neighborhood) shipped across the oceans and filling up the superstores that don't give a hoot about their workers.

Yeah... it would be nice.

Anndi said...

I know, I had a bowl of bitchy and snarky for breakfast. But at least is was locally cultivated... :)

Jay said...

One of the biggest reasons that foreign car companies have been able to improve their efficiency and always upgrade their technology and STILL produce vehicles at lower per until prices is because they don't have to pay for health insurance (their gov'ts do) and their research and development as well much of the expense of upgrading facilities is subsidized by their governments.

Over here, we just give tax breaks for closing down and moving the jobs overseas.

I'm very torn over the idea of the bailout for the car companies. They've been so mismanaged and they just can't keep trying to survive using the same business models that they have now. But, on the other hand, many Republicans are seeing this as an opportunity to finally crush the UAW and other unions.

It's very complicated.

Dianne said...

sparkling - it is so freaking hard to vote with your dollar. at one point I had some stores that were on my 'don't ever shop here because ...' list and also on my 'these stores do such good work'
I think though that there is a mindset in this country that everything is someone else's problem. Had we stopped the Walmarts of the world back when it was starting and only loons like me were screaming we would not have the issue we have today.

kanani - they absolutely have to be reorganized - but I like Raven's idea of how it should happen.

raven - I get that about Walmart, I truly do. There are no easy answers.

daryl - ... and pass the holy wine ;)

bond - they let you have lunch!! ;)
as for the homeless guy pulling the knife - I was just ignoring that - most people forget how many of the homeless are war veterans.
you don't ever have to think here if you don't want to!! you could always leave a comment saying 'get the fuck over yourself Dianne, it's Friday' ;)
have a good weekend

tt - why awkward!! we all have different stories. I'm glad your experiences with Walmart are so positive. What I know of them - more so than other large stores - is that that gobble up land, they screw small towns out of the fair tax revenue, they take on new products and then try to destroy the people who invented them. there are documents from a whistle blower that prove that management tries to drive out older workers, disabled workers by making them do tasks they really can't - for instance - elderly people were told to collect carts during snow storms and hot weather, disabled people were asked to stock shelves - to get them to quit. They may do more than others but compared to what the suck out of the universe they are doing nothing.
I love you too, just not your Walmart ;)

anndi - yeah!! exactly, exactly, exactly!! and it is possible if we start re-examining our values.

Dianne said...

jay - you're right on all counts. that's why I can't wrap my head around the best answer. I didn't even think of all the ways our government created it. we really need to become a progressive nation.
on another blog someone blamed it all on the union. load of crap!! it's always so easy to blame the workers. it's happening to my son.

tt said...

Awkward b/c I've NEVER disagreed with you on anything!!!! Is this our first fight?? OMG!!!
Let's drink lots and kiss and make up....;)

Dianne said...

tt - really - I was only disagreeing with you so that we COULD make up ;)

Sylvia K said...

I love your post, says all the things I feel and get so frustrated over, I love all your comments because I realize I'm not the only one going f%@&*~! nuts! But you do need to watch your language -- Wal-Mart! I mean, really, girl!!

Shelly said...

First off, I loooved this post. I've been ranting about all of this to my friends and family, but not on my blog.
I wholeheartedly agree with you about the big 3 asshats taking jets to beg for money. Stupid. But I also think every freaking member of congress should be flying commercial as well...can you hear me Nancy P???? Sorry D, she's a gigantic asshat too.
Do you see the inconsistency of your driving foreign and then bitching about Wal-Mart? Love you like a sister, but it's apples and apples for me.
Oh my, sorry bout the prolly didn't see that coming from me.

Queen-Size funny bone said...

after I opened my husbands 401K account statements I wanted to jump but no place high enough around here. any tips on suicide you can pass on.

SnoopMurph said...

There was a great discussion about electric cars and their future on NPR Science Friday today. I didn't catch all of it, but wonder if it might help your gas price research?

Linda Reeder said...

I'm skipping all of the rest of the comments because I just want to think about what YOU said.
I have been listeneing to TV and radio but not really reading anything about the ecomomy because from what I can tell, nobody knows what to do, but everybody wants something.
The family story is heartbreaking. After a while, car washes just won't do. Then what?
I want us to make cars in this country, and to increase industry generally, but who will buy what we make if we pay a living wage in our country and then we shop at Walmart?


Jeni said...

Actually, I find it rather ironic of the big wigs in Washington taking the asshats from Detroit to task over their high-faluting company jets and such when you don't see the D.C. ding-dongs giving up any of their perks, offering to pay for their own retirement funds and such or giving up their little "jaunts" on the country's dime either. And the same applies to the Wall Street Wonks and their ridiculous salaries, golden parachutes and such when obviously they can't even fly a kite much less run a corporate enterprise! They give up nothing but expect their employees -the underlings -to go without even employment! Those salaries could be halved, the golden parachutes dissolved, and maybe that might help their books to be able to keep some people on the payroll -those who only have that job to keep them and their families afloat. And learning to run their corporate affairs in an ethical manner sure wouldn't hurt either, would it?
This whole situation really tightens my jaws, big time!
We have one store around here -four miles from the village where I live -a chain operation, yes, but a small-time chain. THeir prices often are way higher than what I can afford to spend so although I do try to be as supportive of them as I can, I am forced by budgetary constraints to buy a lot of stuff then at lovely old Walmart. Sadly, too many of us are in a position of having to choose between options like that.

Ron said...

Hi Dianne!

LOVE this post!

I know this may sound naive, but wouldn't it be great if we could all go back to BARTERING?

And one of the things I really enjoy about living in a city, is the fact that I no longer have a car. My god...I can't tell you how MUCH money it cuts back on. I feel really blessed right now about that, with the way the economy is.

And RIGHT ON about WalMart!!!!


Great post, Dianne!

Thank you.

gabrielle said...

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
I'm crying.

Maithri said...

Amen, Amen my sister

May I also say that no matter how 'bad' we think this economic crisis is...we all still live pretty comfortably compared to the majority of the world...

You're so right when you say
the homeless guy
is always,

one of us,

My love to you,


Dianne said...

sylvia - you are most definitely not alone. and I'll try to watch my language!! I do try to never say Walmart or Republican in front of children

shelly - I've not a fan of Nancy D so don't worry about that. And yes I did see the inconsistency of my Toyota while hating on Walmart - as everyone has been saying it's not an easy subject

queen sized funny - my statement is still sitting here unopened - right next to the bills I can't pay.

snoop - thanks!! I always check out the NPR archives when I have time so I'll look for it.

Linda - that's the thing!! and what I'm saying and have been saying forever and ever is that Americans are spoiled and selfish and shortsighted - and I will include myself in there at times if that will keep people from diverting off the topic. We take the good of a situation and lap it up and then blame the bad of a situation on someone else.
And as maithri below is saying we really do NOT know poverty or sacrifice the way many other people do. In this country we tend to look at poverty as a character flaw. Had you been a better person you'd have money. It also goes back to the feudal system deborah was talking about.

jeni - I think every single operation getting a penny of the bailout money has to FIRE all its execs, take back all their bonuses and from now on all their operations must be public - let's have C-SPAN13 - dedicated to bailout business only. As for Congress sure there's waste there but not anywhere near the level of corporate America. My Congressman drives a beat up old car and does the same thing Biden always did - he takes the railroad. Hell the salary of the President is a fraction of the salary of a low level exec - more twisted American values - corporate means more than public service.

Ron - you know, it just occurred to me from tt and jeni and whoever else shops at Walmart - see how you make me think - we don't even have to stop really. I DO understand the realities. How about buy one less thing that you really don't need. And write to them telling you're going to do that every single week.
I have to have the car out here but it's a 95 and small and good on gas. Don't even get me started on people with Hummers. I wish they could be hunted down the way most of them hunt down deer. And I include my son and his damn pick-up. every day we have a fight about that gigantic suck on the universe.

gabrielle - if only ... I think Americans are wonderful at banding together in times of great crisis - but day to day - not so much.

maithri - poverty in this country is looked upon as a character flaw - as I said above. You must have done something wrong, you must lack something. And now that more and more people are getting closer and closer to poverty perhaps there will be a greater awareness and increased empathy.
As always - I adore all you do and say ...

Jackie said...

Same situation here, the small shops being swallowed up by a few huge chains (Tesco especially), it's happening all over the country. There does seem to be a backlash, and a friend of mine who is a consultant in ethical/fairtrade consumption and marketing knows someone who is doing similar work with Tesco, so it seems like the lobbying is starting to have a small effect. Not a big effect, and no way big enough, but given that these chains aren't going to go away, to have someone working on the inside on ethical issues is a better start than nothing.

I want to say something comforting about your debts and bills, but it will only be trite and meaningless. I guess I'll just think of you as I face my own bills and try not to wince too much at them. :)

Bob-kat said...

So true Diane!

Like the US, the UK long stopped making tangible things which is sad. However, there is a large part of me that just thinks it's plain wrong to use tax payers money to bail out big companies that should have been managed nore efficiently and effectively. If the little guy loses his business then no-one bails him out! The other thing is of course, that if tax payers money is used to bail out the firms then the Government owns shares in the business and so they become partially public funded. An interesting move.

Hope your foot is well on the mend.

Travis said...

I finally found a small hardware store nearby yesterday. It's tough in the suburbs because we're surrounded by the big box retailers.

I am trying though. I've been lucky recently...lost a job but got another better one very quickly. And because I'm fortunate, I hope to be able to start spending next year.

Those who are fortunate need to start spending wisely as soon as possible. Smart spending and smarter saving is a good way to ride out this downturn.

As to the auto industry, I just don't know what my opinion is for them.

Jeff B said...

Any blank check without accountability is a recipe for disaster.

I drive a ¾ton Chevy pick-up. At 13.5 MPG it really sucks. (literally and figuratively) In my line of work however I don't have a better option. It's impossible to carry around all the equipment I need in a little car.

Now for the everyday running around, we use Lisa's car. At 25MPG it still isn't the best thing on the road, but it's a far cry better than wasting gas in the big boy.

It's frustrating at best.

Richie's 2ts Inspires said...

Jst pass by to say Hi this w/end.

Have a great Sunday!

Enjoy...n don't forget to join my game on behalf of the first Advent.

Dr.John said...

*/On the one hand people complain about low paying jobs and no health benefits. On the other hand they buy foreign cars because American cars where the workers get good pay and decent health benefits , thank you unions, are too expensive.
We want somebody else to save them , not us.

Jay Simser said...

You got an award


RiverPoet said...

We don't give our money to WalMart ((shudder)) since we saw the documentary about how they are ruining American business. I am doing my little part.

I'm so sorry for the family you spoke of. Nothing can take you down faster in this country than illness. We know something about that. And yes, we should have been watching the guy in the Armani suit more closely. He was the wolf in sheep's clothing.

Peace - D

Pagan Sphinx said...

Oh, Di, Di, Di!!! Whatever would we do without your intelligence and humor on the blogs? You're priceless.

Never, ever stop blogging, or it will be my looking for ways to do myself in. Wait. I already decided long ago that I would do the Sylvia Plath thing, only to end up living in a house with an electric oven. hehehhe.

The auto guys flying in on their jets really pissed me off. I too have mixed feelings about the auto industry. I guess we have to bail the bastards out but with serious strings attached. I'm tired of hearing about their woes. How about our woes of not being able to buy an affordable car that runs on clean energy??? My car's gonna run until it's run out but when I buy the next one in 3 years or so, I'm hoping there will be some choices I can live with and pay for.

Thanks for a great post.

Dianne said...

jackie - we'll just try not to wince together :)

bob-kat - I'll be the first to admit that economics stymies me more than a little but I do think I have a good grasp on common sense. Half the bailout is gone and the banks are still not easing up on foreclosures or extending new credit - they're buying each other up!! Basically Paulsen is doing whatever he wants. How do we get a job like that?

Jeff - If I could without losing his love forever I would give you my son's pick-up LOL
at least your use of one makes sense as opposed to this urban assault vehicle mentality so many seem to have. Funny thing - my Jeff takes my little car to work most nights since the gas $$$ for the pick-up was killing him

richie's - I hope you check out my SSS - it's on the photo blog :)

dr john - back when I bought my toyota all the care makers were doing just fine so I didn't feel I was hurting anyone. funny thing - right now Toyota is employing more Americans than the Big 3 are. As is VW which is the car I've had since 95.
As for unions making things too expensive - well I think our gov't has far more to do with that as Jay pointed out in his comment. And the management and greedy and stupid executives.

jay s - thanks!! I was coming over to read Wordzzle soon :)

riverpoet - I'm experiencing a bit of illness disaster myself - on a much smaller scale than my neighbors. I have counted on my PT jobs to fill in the gaps when business was slow and since I haven't been able to work them in months it has really caused a problem making ends meet.

pagan - thanks lol
I was going to through myself in the pool but it's covered !!! hehehehe

the walking man said...

Funny thing about the executives of the once B3, they are stuck in a time when American manufacturing ruled the world. Their attitude displayed before the congress to them was normal, asking for money was not humbling but to them they felt that if the country wants to not lose the jobs they still provide with their factories and supply chains, then the money is a no brainer.

What I hate about the dialog in Detroit though is that people who received the largess from their parents UAW jobs in the form of an education now rail against that same union and the contracts negotiated when the market share was above 60%.

Could the pimps of Woodward ave, have done a better job preparing to appear? I doubt it, with the exception of Mulally they are all car guys and car guys if nothing else believe they are kings of American Manufacturing and deserving of every perk the companies boards of directors bestow on them.

Look to Roger Smith as the ultimate car guy..ass that he is.

Dianne said...

mark - you always hit a nerve with me!! I have been thinking about the asshats that negate the worth of the working stiffs that came before them - but then again America is in general a country with selective amnesia - look at how veterans are treated.

Anonymous said...

Suddenly Willy Loman doesn't seem so crazy, after all, does he.

Shimmerrings said...

Thanks for stopping by my blog... and I really like your style. It's quite humorous that you started this out with looking for a way to commit suicide... and then slipped easily into something else. Extremes, gotta love 'em, they keep the blood flowing. I know how you feel about Wal-Mart. Thing is, with the economy so bad, we end up going there, anyways... so many things that need change. Here's hoping!

Anonymous said...


麻將,台灣彩卷,六合彩開獎號碼,運動彩卷,六合彩,線上遊戲,矽谷麻將,明星3缺一,橘子町,麻將大悶鍋,台客麻將,公博,game,,中華職棒,麗的線上小遊戲,國士無雙麻將,麻將館,賭博遊戲,威力彩,威力彩開獎號碼,龍龍運動網,史萊姆,史萊姆好玩遊戲,史萊姆第一個家,史萊姆好玩遊戲區,樂透彩開獎號碼,遊戲天堂,好玩遊戲,遊戲基地,無料遊戲王,好玩遊戲區,麻將遊戲,好玩遊戲區,小遊戲,遊戲區,電玩快打,cs online情趣用品,情趣,情趣商品,A片,AIO交友愛情館,AIOAV女優,AV,A漫,免費A片,本土自拍,自拍,愛情公寓,情色,情色貼圖,色情小說,情色小說,情色文學,色情,寄情築園小遊戲,色情遊戲,色情影片,情色網,色情網站,微風成人區,微風成人,嘟嘟成人網,成人,18成人,成人影城,成人圖片區,成人圖片,成人貼圖,成人文章,成人小說,UT聊天室,聊天室,豆豆聊天室,哈啦聊天室,尋夢園聊天室,聊天室尋夢園,080中部人聊天室,080聊天室,中部人聊天室,080苗栗人聊天室,苗栗人聊天室,免費視訊聊天,免費視訊,視訊聊天室,視訊聊天情趣用品,情趣,情趣商品,愛情公寓,情色,情色貼圖,色情小說,情色小說,情色文學,色情,寄情築園小遊戲,色情遊戲,AIO交友愛情館,一葉情貼圖片區,情色論壇,色情影片,色情網站,微風成人區,微風成人,嘟嘟成人網,成人,18成人,成人影城,成人圖片,成人貼圖,成人圖片區,成人文章,成人小說,A片,AV女優,AV,A漫,免費A片,自拍,UT聊天室,聊天室,豆豆聊天室,哈啦聊天室,尋夢園聊天室,聊天室尋夢園,080中部人聊天室,080聊天室,080苗栗人聊天室情趣用品,情趣,情趣商品,愛情公寓,情色,情色貼圖,色情小說,情色小說,情色文學,色情,做愛,寄情築園小遊戲,色情遊戲,AIO交友愛情館,AIO,色情影片,情色網,微風成人,嘟嘟成人網,成人,18成人,成人影城,成人圖片,成人貼圖,成人圖片區,成人文章,成人小說,成人電影,麗的色遊戲,自拍,A片,AV女優,AV,A漫,視訊交友網,視訊,視訊交友,免費視訊聊天室,免費視訊,視訊聊天,視訊聊天室,UT聊天室,聊天室,豆豆聊天室,哈啦聊天室,尋夢園聊天室,聊天室尋夢園